Posts by Deputy Dog

I find sovereign grace to be one of the most calming and loving expressions of God. It assures me that all the suffering in this world, and the next ,has a purpose, while I may not understand it completely this side of glory.

Put simply, before billions are ever born, God knows that these people will live for a few years on Earth, and then they will go to Hell and burn for all eternity. Nothing that these people do during their lives can change this fact. People cannot decide to choose God. God must choose them.

As a sinful, unrighteous creature, I'm in no position to argue with God about it. I trust His judgement and realize that if I recieved what I deserve Hell is where I'd be headed.

Evil and suffering provide the backdrop, if you will, for the glory of God.

onemore

Yes, that is one of the subject that I have reservations with, and it seems to be one of the most difficult point in reformed theology to accept. But at this point, I am in no position to neither reject it nor accept this teaching without fully understanding it.

I'll leave you with this:

Romans 9:20

But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory--

41

2 Thessalonians issue

by Mat in

reading a great book, jeus interupted, that i reccomend, but i came accross an interesting issue about second thessalonians.

ehrman argues that he does not think 2 thessalonians was written by the same person who wrote 1 thessalonians, and gives his reasons:.

if paul meant what he said in 1 thessalonians, that jesus return would be sudden and unexpected, it is hard to believe that he could have written what is said in 2 thessaloniansthat the end is not coming right away and that there will be clear-cut signs to indicate that the end is near, signs that had not yet appeared.

Deputy Dog

Mat

That said it also is possable it is genuine and that Paul only claimed he told them such things. We know how the Watchtower implies they predicted the First World War, when in fact they didn't.

Apples and watermelons rotten watermelons.

Like most of Ehrman's allegations/suggestions, he runs very short on evidence. So without evidence, why would you suggest Paul would do such a thing? Are you're trying to suggest Paul is acting like a JW simply because the WT lies to it's people?

7

Christian Imbeciles Embarrass Themselves At A Bill Nye The Science Guy Lecture.

by Low-Key Lysmith in

jw
friends

http://www.thinkatheist.com/profiles/blogs/bill-nye-bood-in-texas-for.

this doesn't represent all christians.

just kinda scary to think that there are some people out there who really think like this..

Deputy Dog

Low-Key

That's almost as bad as my 7th grade science teacher trying to show the class that air has weight by blowing into a bread wrapper and weighing it on a scale. First he weighed the empty bread wrapper, then he filled it with air and put a twisty tie on the end to hold the air in. I guess he thought us stupid 7th graders wouldn't notice the twisty tie had weight.

He wasn't a Christian, and he kept me after school in detention for disrupting class, because I pointed it out.

41

2 Thessalonians issue

by Mat in

reading a great book, jeus interupted, that i reccomend, but i came accross an interesting issue about second thessalonians.

ehrman argues that he does not think 2 thessalonians was written by the same person who wrote 1 thessalonians, and gives his reasons:.

if paul meant what he said in 1 thessalonians, that jesus return would be sudden and unexpected, it is hard to believe that he could have written what is said in 2 thessaloniansthat the end is not coming right away and that there will be clear-cut signs to indicate that the end is near, signs that had not yet appeared.

Deputy Dog

Ehrman argues that he does not think 2 Thessalonians was written by the same person who wrote 1 Thessalonians, and gives his reasons:

If Paul meant what he said in 1 Thessalonians, that Jesus’ return would be sudden and unexpected, it is hard to believe that he could have written what is said in 2 Thessalonians—that the end is not coming right away and that there will be clear-cut signs to indicate that the end is near, signs that had not yet appeared. The author of 2 Thessalonians writes, “I told you these things when I was still with you” (2:5). If that were true, why would the Thessalonians have been upset when some members of their community died (1 Thessalonians)? They would have known that the end was not coming right away, but was to be preceded by the appearance of the anti-Christ figure and other signs.

If 2 thessalonians was a fraud, who was it written to? Don't you think the people it was written to would remember what he told them? The author expects his audience to remember what he said.

36

Miracles For Sale

by cofty in

new derren brown documentary this evening on channel 4 (uk) 9-10:30pm.

his insights into human psychology is astonishing, some of his previous docs have been jaw-dropping.. "the entertainer investigates the reality behind america's faith-healing phenomenon, and chooses an unsuspecting member of the british public who is prepared to adopt the guise of a pastor.

the selected person then tries to perform healing `miracles' in texas after six months of learning, in an experiment to see whether he will be accepted".

Deputy Dog

cofty

"Did I feel 'manipulated' after I left the JWs? - Well its a bit off topic but to some extent yes, and no I don't have any problem with the personal nature of your question, why would I? There are many ex-JWs on the board but not so many ex-JW ex-christians and I am happy to share my experience."

As I've read your posts and comments over the many months, I suspected that was the case. I would guess that is the case for many that call themselves "ex-christians".

"On your second point I really don't understand, sorry. How are these videos any different from what?"

How are these videos different from... " evangelical preaching" as you call it? Aren't they trying to change people's minds and using trickery to do it?

"I am convinced that every church demonstrates the characteristics of a cult to a greater or lesser degree."

You're painting with a very broad brush, I think you need to visit "every church" before you make a statement like that. I won't speak for all churches, but, let me say I agree with you, that many do, and many practice "manipulation". On the other hand, you don't have to be a "church" to manipulate or to be a cult. Politicle parties are a perfect example, Who manipulates more than them? Are they cults ? Are advertisers cultists, when they try to manipulate you into buying somthing? Are the Boy Scouts a cult? They manipulate children, usualy for the good.

"Every activity of a religious group is designed to achieve "group-think"

I would say that is the activity of political groups. In fact, I believe you are getting politics in the church confused with faith in God, something the WT never could understand, for them it's ALL about control.

Yes, many of the things you listed, can be used or are performed in such a way as to being munipulative, but not always.

People unite into groups for all sorts of ideas and reasons. You seem to focus only on the groups you don't like, the religious ones, and call them cults.

"As soon as a group adopts a position that all its members should accept the bible as authoritative it is being willfully manipulative."

It's funny, I was just talking about this with a Christian friend of mine. There is a sense in which we agree with you. Some people in churches think it's there job to change people's minds, they don't see the problem with what they are doing, nor see it as "manipulation". It's munipulative when you aren't up front with someone or when you "trick" someone into agreeing with you. Many cults like the JWs and Mormons are really good about telling someone what they want to hear before they join, to get them in. Then after a commitment is made, they tell them what they really need to believe and what's expected.

Don't confuse the assembly and worship, of people who are already of like faith and like mind/"think" as munipuation, they come together because they already agree, think and believe the same way.

What is wrong with a group that says "this is what we believe and if you agree, come join us"? What's wrong with a group of people saying we believe the bible is the Word of God, right up front, and asking others who already believe the same way, to join them? How is that munipulative?

36

Miracles For Sale

by cofty in

new derren brown documentary this evening on channel 4 (uk) 9-10:30pm.

his insights into human psychology is astonishing, some of his previous docs have been jaw-dropping.. "the entertainer investigates the reality behind america's faith-healing phenomenon, and chooses an unsuspecting member of the british public who is prepared to adopt the guise of a pastor.

the selected person then tries to perform healing `miracles' in texas after six months of learning, in an experiment to see whether he will be accepted".

Deputy Dog

cofty

Do you feel you were "manipulated", after you left the JWs?

"Every time somebody raises their hands in church and says "amen" they are under the influence of group-think. The level of manipulation in evangelical preaching varies from mild to extreme but it all manipulative."

Are you having a problem with the personal nature of my question? I noticed you didn't answer.

One could say that "communication" is it's self a sort of munipulation. After all, how are these videos any different, t hey admit they start off with a deception.

36

Miracles For Sale

by cofty in

new derren brown documentary this evening on channel 4 (uk) 9-10:30pm.

his insights into human psychology is astonishing, some of his previous docs have been jaw-dropping.. "the entertainer investigates the reality behind america's faith-healing phenomenon, and chooses an unsuspecting member of the british public who is prepared to adopt the guise of a pastor.

the selected person then tries to perform healing `miracles' in texas after six months of learning, in an experiment to see whether he will be accepted".

Deputy Dog

cofty

"I remember watching him "preaching the gospel" to a group of around 20 or so non-christians and by the end of it many of them were "giving their life to Jesus". Derren is an atheist; he then counseled the people involved and explained them how he had manipulated them."

Do you feel you were "manipulated", after you left the JWs?

I think manipulation is a big problem, in the church. I have not seen this, but if you could tell me whereor how to get that video, I'd like to see it. Phony is phony.

36

Miracles For Sale

by cofty in

new derren brown documentary this evening on channel 4 (uk) 9-10:30pm.

his insights into human psychology is astonishing, some of his previous docs have been jaw-dropping.. "the entertainer investigates the reality behind america's faith-healing phenomenon, and chooses an unsuspecting member of the british public who is prepared to adopt the guise of a pastor.

the selected person then tries to perform healing `miracles' in texas after six months of learning, in an experiment to see whether he will be accepted".

Deputy Dog

cofty

It doesn't take much "insight" to see how these are among the worse types of charlatans, they are right up there with quack doctors.

15

So who's doing Easter Sunday

by designs in

do you see it as celebrating a literal resurrection event, or do you see it as a celebration of hope or some other cause to celebrate..

Deputy Dog

designs

Thanks for asking.

We're going to have a double celebration this year. On Sunday we will celebrate by looking back at Christ's resurrection, and thanking God for it. Then, on Tuesday my wife and I, will celebrate the future resurrection of my wife's mother, (who died on Thursday) at the funeral.

He is risen!!!